Podcast: Working With Millennials

Millennials are taking over the workforce, here’s how to keep them engaged & empowered.

With Boomers retiring and Gen X-ers and Xennials sharing a workspace with Millennial employees, it can be hard to bridge the gap between different generations. Here at PIN, it’s predominantly Millennial-aged talent that fills the roles which are needed in today’s fast-paced digital world. This podcast includes two Gen X-ers and a Millennial who discuss the highs and lows of working with Millennials.

Announcer: Coming to you from the Denver Tech Center in Denver, Colorado. This is PIN Business with Laura Cromwell.

Laura Cromwell: Hey, every one it’s Laura at PIN Business Network here with Joe Oltmann and Keith Sawarynski, here to talk about what it’s like to work with Millennials!

Joe Oltmann: Lots of Millennials.

Laura Cromwell: Lots and lots of Millennials!

Joe Oltmann: They’re everywhere.

Laura Cromwell: You Gen Xers, or Mid-Boomers, I don’t know, what are you?

Keith Sawarynski: What?

Joe Oltmann: Mid-Boomer? I don’t know what that is. What is a Mid-Boomer?

Laura Cromwell: Not old enough to quite to have gotten into Vietnam, but–

Joe Oltmann: Oh, my gosh.

Keith Sawarynski: Seriously, what just happened?!

Joe Oltmann: At that, I’d only be a couple of years away from Social Security, I guess.

Keith Sawarynski: I was born into the middle of the Steelers Super Bowl dynasty. I’m not even close to–

Laura Cromwell: I was definitely not alive for that. I’m sorry.

Joe Oltmann: I had to research it the other day. I have no idea what I am like, oh, I’m an X-er or kind of.

Laura Cromwell: So, because you are surrounded by us, you know, through your own volition. So you hired us, so you know, you knew what you were getting into. What are the frustrations that you’ve been facing working with us, young’uns?

Joe Oltmann: Like, like, like like like like and like like like.

Laura Cromwell: I don’t know. I feel like I need like a spiritual journey or awakening so I need to go to Iceland for like a whole week.

Joe Oltmann: I think that’s probably my biggest–it doesn’t bother me, but I notice it the most when people walk up to me and say, like, Joe, can we like, do this? Like, like, like. And I go, I don’t know. Like you can you do it? Like, I don’t know if I’ll actually keep them. And they go. I’m not talking to you. I’m not talking to you.

Laura Cromwell: So you’re saying is we need to work on our elocution skills?

Joe Oltmann: I think so, actually. I think that probably is. I think it from my perspective, I just didn’t want to pick it up. It’s almost like a virus. Then you start saying like a virus, like I just said, like my like you and I just did. It’s infectious.

Keith Sawarynski: It is.

Joe Oltmann: But more seriously, I don’t think there’s anything that Millennials do that bother me per se. I think the, and Keith, correct me if I’m wrong, I think I think there’s there’s a portion that we assign the stereotype to. Frankly, we try to avoid those people inside of PIN. Those are people that have a sense of high entitlement or have a low accountability rate or are not competitive or feel that, you know, that the status quo is OK. We look for high performers, really smart people. And so as a result, most of the people I’d say almost all, if not all of the people that we work with are, you know, they defy that Millennial type of behavior that we hear about in the media. Or maybe it’s just made up.

Keith Sawarynski: Yeah, I mean, generalizations are generalizations when you actually have a conversation with an individual person. So I use the example you can be talking about anything with any person and they’re largely going to break the stereotypical generalizations that are out there. So there are certain things that you see or that I have engaged with or that I’ve experienced in leading people for as long as we’ve been leading people.

Joe Oltmann: We’re not past Gen-X though, let’s be really clear.

Keith Sawarynski: We’re not like a half-Boomer. To co-op 2019 parlance, I’m offended by that statement.

Laura Cromwell: Oh, do you need your special safe space?

Keith Sawarynski: I do need my safe space. I feel like I’m melting.

Laura Cromwell: I left my safety pin at home.

Keith Sawarynski: The violin’s playing over here.

Joe Oltmann: I’m going to cry.

Keith Sawarynski: But leading people is simply that it’s leading people. So it doesn’t matter who you’re talking to. It doesn’t matter what generation they come from or it doesn’t. None of that matters. What matters is that you actually treat them like an individual, like a person, and you acknowledge where they are, what is important to them. And you speak to them in a way that resonates. And the rest of it is just to me, it’s a punchline. It’s a joke. Right. Because that’s you don’t lead through generalizations. You lead through individual interactions with individual people, depending on what it is that you’re trying to accomplish. That said, no, I’m kidding.

Laura Cromwell: However…

Joe Oltmann: Well, I mean, I think that we create stereotypes everywhere. And one of the reasons why, as a business, we’ve been successful and we’ve been able to do the things we have with clients is we have more of an innovative environment. We have a give the people that work on our team space so they can innovate and build things and do cool things and try to find solutions. And even on the tech side, they can build new tech and create new environments. And I mean, we’re sitting in a podcast room that, you know, someone came up with an idea and said, hey, let’s have a podcast room. And I was like, that sounds like a great idea. So now we have a podcast and we do a podcast and clients come in and they do podcasts. And we created this infectious environment that allows for us to, I guess, put more ceiling above people that makes them think about more possibilities.

Laura Cromwell: Like an incubator.

Joe Oltmann: Yes. So we don’t have the same type of issue that I think a lot of companies, they talk about experience, but we look at those experiences with people differently as well, because it’s always an opportunity for us to fail forward. And so, we, people aren’t afraid, I think, to make decisions inside the company or do things that the company.

Laura Cromwell: All right.

Joe Oltmann: And we’re just cooler, it’s cooler.

Laura Cromwell: So what would you say, like, would be the best, ha I did it now too!

Joe Oltmann: Like

Keith Sawarynski: That just happened!

Laura Cromwell: Can we edit that out!?

Joe Oltmann: No, no, no, that stays in, no editing that out.

Laura Cromwell: So retaining Millennial employees. What do you think is like a boon to that? When do you think that keeps them from staying or keeps–

Joe Oltmann: You mean keeps them staying-

Laura Cromwell: Keeps them staying.

Joe Oltmann: No, you’re right. I mean, look, it’s difficult to find good people. I mean, Keith, you could–

Keith Sawarynski: It’s difficult to find two again if you’re talking about generalizations. Some people are motivated by money. Some people are motivated by the intrinsic value of giving back. Some people are motivated by the types of projects or the roles of the people they get to interact with. For me, it’s pretty simple. You have to figure out what those things are that each person cares about. And then you have to provide them with the commensurate amount of opportunity to experience that. So if somebody is money motivated, then it’s easy to give them a list of tasks and then reward them with a check for a job well done for somebody who is not money motivated, but instead is motivated by their ability to interact with other individuals, offering them a commission structure, offering them a raise. It’s a secondary validation. It’s not the primary validation. And so if what you end up doing, in my opinion, if what you end up doing is just stroking secondary and tertiary validation points for particular individuals, that’s when you’ll lose them. And then whether or not they leave. I think if somebody just said, look, this isn’t the place for me and they walked out. I think everybody would be better off if that occurred. But most of the time, what happens is that there starts to be this festering of unhappiness. And it’s hard to pinpoint what’s causing it. If you don’t spend the time to have conversations with everyone. So as a leader, I consider myself a leader of one of the things I try and do every single day is getting into a relationship, get into a conversation with every person that works here. Whether that conversation is business-related or not is largely dictated by that individual. It usually doesn’t start from me. I usually walk over and say hello and maybe act like an idiot. And then I wait for them to respond. And then that individual will talk to me in the way that they want to be talked to or whatever they want to talk about at that moment. So I might find myself in the middle of your area, right? And the conversation I have with people who sit next to you is not the conversation that you’re about to have with me. Right. Because you want to talk about something. And it could be funny or it could be satirical. It could be about school or whatever it is. So I usually don’t ask you those questions, because that’s me sort of saying these are the things I want to talk about. Now, if I want to talk about business or work, then I usually don’t come over with the niceties. I usually walk over and say, hey, this is what I’m thinking about. This is what I need. And those are two different conversations. But I think you garner the respect to have that second conversation because you’re willing to have the first one.

Joe Oltmann: Yes. And to a large degree, we probably should talk about this. Our turnover rate in 2013 was less than 5 percent. I mean, that’s almost unheard of industry and your average is 39 percent, 40 percent. And, you know, we’ve crept up there in 2019 because, you know, we’re just a faster company. And we talk a little bit about how to keep Millennials engaged or keep anyone engaged. And most of it is being able to challenge them and hold them accountable. And that’s a cultural issue. So you really have to when we have to meld kind of the needs of the individuals with a culture that stimulates large proportions of people because we have people that are 60 years old that work for the company, not us.

Keith Sawarynski: Not me.

Joe Oltmann: Yeah, but nothing. Of course, that’s true. I can’t believe I’m having a moment here. No. But we have to make sure that the people within the organization collectively can have a good experience, right? Every time they wake up in the morning wanting to come to work, wanting to actually solve problems, wanting to win. And so Millennials are more, I think, more adaptive to that environment. And I think that one reason that we’ve seen some turnover in certain areas is that we’ve put that pressure down on anyone, even Millennials, and they don’t react favorably to it because they don’t like that pressure. And so the more successful you become as a company, the more eyeballs are on you and more is expected out of those particular environments, which leads to, you know, whether or not you can or cannot get fatigued in that environment.

Keith Sawarynski: Well, if you put a bunch of competitive, intelligent people in a room. Right. Everyone’s going to want to have their opportunity to say something. And everybody is gonna want.

Joe Oltmann: Can I say something?

Keith Sawarynski: Not necessarily equal outcome, although it’s easy to generalize that way. I think everybody wants to believe that if they had an idea, that it would be taken seriously. So a lot of the managerial stuff we deal with is stuff that we deal with regardless of whatever label you want to put on. On an individual. The reality is you have to understand where what someone’s trying to accomplish in an organization. You have to understand what they’re trying to do and how that may be positively or negatively affecting the people around them. And if as long as you do that, then you realize that anybody is receptive to an experiential conversation. Right. So I had one this morning. Somebody asked me a question and said, this is the thing that I ran into last night. And I actually responded last night and said, let’s talk about this right when I get in. So he came and found me and I said, just tell me about what happened yesterday. So he tells me the story. And I said, OK. So what’s your next step? What would you do next? And his response was, I don’t know. I’m asking you for guidance. So at that point in time, I had given him the opportunity to tell me what he thought he could do or would want to do. And had he told me that this is what he wanted to do, I would have said, great, go do that. Here’s what I’ve experienced. However, go do what you just said you were going to do. But because he didn’t, he asked for advice. I gave him advice. And then I watched the interaction happen in a couple of hours later. And whether or not the outcome will be what he wants it to be is irrelevant. The outcome that I was looking for was he is now in a position where he’s got another tool or another way that he can communicate or negotiate in his toolbox because he was willing to ask had I ever experience something like that before? And I think in that sense, again, leading people are leading people. And you will find on when you generalize about when we generalize about Millennials, right, from a punchline standpoint, there is some truth in that generalization. So you will find individuals that that actually fit that ridiculous hyperbole, whatever the word is, right, and they match it to a T. And at that point in time, you just you’re not going to be able to lead it anywhere.

Joe Oltmann: They don’t work here. I don’t even know if they work.

Laura Cromwell: Speaking of work experience when you are handed a resume, and they have a year here, a year here, two years a year. What does that say to you?

Joe Oltmann: Well, for a Millennial?

Laura Cromwell: Millennial.

Joe Oltmann: So I think the process for us is pretty well baked. Right. So like and like know I think I’m just kidding. I think that it is well baked in that we have a multi-step process. First of all, we want other people on the team to interview those people. So we don’t look at the circumstance. We recognize that there’s a lot of companies out there that have a terrible culture. Actually, most of them do. I don’t think most of them that’s unfair. Most of them don’t understand what culture really means. And I’m talking about billion-dollar companies all the way down.

Laura Cromwell: I came from one.

Joe Oltmann: You came from a billion-dollar company and culture was tough. And so I think we recognize that so we try not to look at, hey, they work this job a year, this troubled here this time of year as to whether or not they could sustain themselves in our environment. But we follow up those processes on the interviews with expectations, accountability. We put a little bit of pressure on them and then we do a personality index test that tells us how best to talk to them. And I think those help us identify people, especially Millennials, that will fit the culture or adapt to the culture and still have all of those work ethic and accountability pieces that I think are necessary to be in the environment that we thrive in.

Keith Sawarynski: Yeah. If I’m interviewing somebody, I want to tell them the great things about being here. I mean, tell them the challenges that they’re going to experience. So you make a choice. I think a lot of times you’re going to go into an interview and it’s just like a first date. A first date. You know, you get all gussied up and you go out someplace nice. And the chances of you doing that again on the second, third and hundredth date are probably pretty slim.

Joe Oltmann: I don’t know who you date, oh that’s right, you’re married.

Keith Sawarynski: I am married.

Laura Cromwell: Try dating as a Millennial going somewhere nice is–

Joe Oltmann: That’s another podcast.

Keith Sawarynski: Dating as a Millennial, I don’t even know what to tell you.

Laura Cromwell: Don’t do it. Give up.

Joe Oltmann: Oh, my gosh. Oh, please don’t say that.

Keith Sawarynski: So I think if you introduce somebody to a company and all you do is tell them that everything here is gonna be sunshine and roses and rainbows and unicorns. As soon as a storm cloud passes through. That storm cloud is the expectation is that shouldn’t have happened. And then their natural reaction is, you know, a little bit of confusion and wait a second. These things actually happen here. Yes, things go wrong. So we’ll talk about I talk about accountability, not as a cudgel. I don’t go to beating you over the head with accountability. I’m going to empower you with accountability. Right. So if you say you want to do something, then do it because you just asked for that responsibility. So take ownership of it. And if it works, great. If it doesn’t work, great. The challenge is most people and even places that I worked prior to here. Right. Raising your hand and saying that I will do that thing and not having it come out the way that the boss would have done it themselves is often a bad thing. Right. And so that empowerment isn’t there, which means accountability is actually a cudgel. So then what you end up doing is retreating into your space and then you play turf wars with people who are trying to get into things that you’re responsible for and then at that point in time, innovation and collaboration, they’re just made up words, they don’t actually exist because you’re playing politics at that point in time and you’re just trying to hold on to what’s yours. Right. And so you’re minimizing the size that the pie could actually be. And you’re just saying, I want a big piece of this little pie when you don’t realize is if you guys if you would just work together, you could astronomically grow the size of that pie. And then that little piece that you have of that giant pie is worth, what, much more? Right. Whether it’s spiritual or personal or professional or monetary, it doesn’t matter whatever is whatever value of assigned to it. But I think it’s really important that when you see a resume that has a year here, a year here, nine months here, a year here, you don’t just get rid of that whole cloth. I think the days of your bouncing around jobs, that mentality of sort of gone because I don’t think maybe you haven’t found the right opportunity or maybe you haven’t found the right, you know, the right cultural fit. But I will ask the question. So talk to me about why.

Joe Oltmann: It’ll get us through the first step, which is to the first interview. Yeah. But after we go through that and we start having a conversation, there are people that naturally select that, you know, we’re not looking for warm bodies. And so as a company, we’re much more selective and patient. So we’ve made some we’ve brought some people on the team that are Millennials or not Millennials, Mostly Millennials, because we have probably 90 percent or Millennials.

Keith Sawarynski: We’re a tech company.

Laura Cromwell: It’s young.

Joe Oltmann: It is young. And I think that as we bring them on that just didn’t work out. Right. We recognize very quickly. But we also were patient with them and probably hadn’t stayed too long because we do value people. But overall, I still think that you know, that’ll get him through the first step then we’ll try to figure out if it was the companies that they worked for previously that didn’t challenge him enough or give him enough responsibility or get enough ceiling to be successful and innovate. And I think we’ve done a good job of taking people that have been on, you know, work for places for nine months, a year, two years. And, you know, they’ve been here four I mean, Graham has been here six. Employee Five. Yeah, we have Employee One, Two, Three, Four, Five. All the way up to Employee Seven. They’re still here. Right. I mean, there’s a lot that the first seven employees have been here since the beginning.

Laura Cromwell: All right.

Joe Oltmann: And they’re millennials.

Keith Sawarynski: Some of them.

Joe Oltmann: And then, Chris, they’re Millennials and Chris.

Keith Sawarynski: Meepth.

Joe Oltmann: We’re not going to tell you what Meepth means, but he might have bought a Nissan Leaf. So a Nissan Leaf. He’s not a Millennial. Right. He’s not. I’d say he’s not. He’s not.

Keith Sawarynski: He’s not, no.

Joe Oltmann: Really smart guy. He’s our CTO. And he said, “I want a Nissan Leaf.” And so that the horn makes this sound like “Meepth.” So we tease him a little bit on that.

Keith Sawarynski: He drives a car, when you honk the horn, it has a lisp. Yeah.

Joe Oltmann: “Hello, Meepth.”

Keith Sawarynski: We’re only half of a drink in. Just imagine if we were one or two in. Cheers to that.

Laura Cromwell: So with all this, what would you want Millennials to just quit doing in order to get out of their own way?

Keith Sawarynski: Well, again, I look–

Joe Oltmann: This gets into the stereotype.

Laura Cromwell: Stereotypes save time.

Keith Sawarynski: Fine.

Joe Oltmann: They save time, but they don’t give people an opportunity. Right. There’s a reason why stereotypes exist and most of the time it’s set up to keep people back. It’s like tying a string around an elephant’s —

Laura Cromwell: Oh, well, I can’t help it. I’m, like, a Millennial.

Joe Oltmann: Like, like, like-

Laura Cromwell: If I can’t put on my Instagram, it like, didn’t happen, can I Snapchat this?

Joe Oltmann: Here’s the one thing. I mean, if I could say this, Millennials need to get the hell out of their phone.

Laura Cromwell: Ooohhh.

Joe Oltmann: They need to get out their phone.

Laura Cromwell: Their electronic binky.

Joe Oltmann: Absolutely. Can’t have a conversation. That’s one of the things that we do here is that we people engaged right there having conversations with each other. You go out there and you sit on a bus, you go to a sporting event, you go anywhere out there. And the Millennials are literally got a cricked neck. They’re looking down at their phone right there. They’re absorbed in either creating information, creating a persona-

Laura Cromwell: Stalking.

Joe Oltmann: It’s stalking. That’s funny how Laura goes straight to stalking.

Keith Sawarynski: Second date? Third date?

Laura Cromwell: When you work in search marketing you just want to know how much you’re getting yourself into. I’ve found mug shots of men that I’ve gone out with. It’s research.

Keith Sawarynski: Separate podcast. Separate. Separate.

Joe Oltmann: Yeah. So that we could actually make podcasts about podcasts.

Keith Sawarynski: Well I mean I agree with you. I would not be able to count the number of times I have said to somebody when they’ve asked for something they send a message on Slack. “Well, I sent you a message.” I was talking to the person on Slack. No, I just know the person. They’re right on the other side of the wall. Stand up, walk out or walk over there and have the conversation with them. I think I would say it a long time ago. Somebody said to me, right, you know, you have you’re talented, you’re smart, but you don’t know everything. And that’s that doesn’t mean that you’re ignorant, what they were saying to me as you just haven’t, not enough time has passed for you to have seen all of the things that you need to see. And the point was, as you continue to grow in your career and this is somebody that I very much respect. And he said to me, you will see ten years from now. Right. Things that today you can’t see. And there is a myriad of business issues that you’re just walking past or glossing over because you don’t know that they’re there. So I don’t think that’s a new conversation that a manager or a boss would have with somebody who was hired right out of college with their first or even their second job. You just haven’t seen it. So what I would say is you’re no different. Millennials are no different than I was or I’ve imagined generations before me were in the fact that I knew everything until I realized I didn’t know everything. And once you get to the point where you can acknowledge that you don’t know everything, but that doesn’t take away from your ability to grow and learn and absorb. It’s not a knock on you that you don’t know everything. Then all the sudden, right. What’s possible for you is endless. So there are still business facets. There are things about business. There are things about our business today that I’m still learning. But I’m to a point where I recognize that those things I don’t know. I recognize them as things I don’t know. And so I’m actively trying to find out how to learn those things or absorb those or experience those activities or that process so that the next time it comes up, I will have that experience versus just glossing over and saying it doesn’t matter that I don’t understand that concept or even worse. It doesn’t matter. That concept may exist because I don’t care about it because it makes me uncomfortable that I don’t know.

Laura Cromwell: All right.

Joe Oltmann: That’s a mouthful, huh? But it’s true. And I think that’s one of the cool things about what we do is that we stay aligned and Millennials don’t you know, here’s me generalizing like, Millennials don’t like criticism. If I had to say one thing about them, they don’t like criticism.

Laura Cromwell: Why do you think that is?

Joe Oltmann: They don’t want to be the center of attention when something bad goes wrong.

Laura Cromwell: Because we’re so used to getting constant validation, a trophy for everything.

Joe Oltmann: Yeah. And I think that’s a mistake. I think that when the weaker part, this is going to be really bad. So I’m going to say it right now. I think when a weaker part of the population influences competition, influences competency and accountability and makes excuses for why people can do the things that they do. It creates a void. And so I think one of the things we’re able to do as a company is we retrain people. No politics in the office. Right. So you can’t be promoted because you, you know, kiss up to somebody else. It’s all merit-based. Yeah, we’re called a meritocracy. I mean, that’s really, truly what we have. And as a result of that, we get, but we do have problems when people come into the company and they have worked in other places, we have to sit down with them and say, look, it’s OK to fail. We’ve had people fail where for a week they wouldn’t look at you. They put their head down. Walk around. That’s true. And I don’t want to see you hide behind the mic. Don’t go. Don’t look at me. And the reason being is because there’s shame that’s felt right. One side is there’s no accountability. The other side is they have an immense amount of shame because a lot of times we create this environment where it’s not OK to fail to play it safe, wear a helmet.

Laura Cromwell: So be more shameless, is what you’re saying?

Joe Oltmann: It’s not shameless, it’s fearless. We have some of the greatest tech out there. We have some of the greatest tech team in the social. And all these teams that we have in all these different environments where we have those teams because I tell everyone fail and then when they fail to act, it didn’t hurt so bad. It’s like falling off your bike. I felt my bike frame or break a bone, you know, break a bomb. You just bruise yourself. You didn’t wear a helmet. You survived. Everyone says, “I can’t believe you survived!” I didn’t wear a helmet when I was a kid. So I’m still here.

Keith Sawarynski: I’ll probably put on on my kids.

Joe Oltmann: You probably will because you’ve been trained to lack accountability and fearlessness. No, I don’t. I’m not saying that from-, it’s changed like the society has changed, it’s gone to a more protective bubblewrap mentality. And what we try to do is try to de-bubblewrap people in and let them understand that it’s OK, it’s OK. It’s OK to fail. It’s OK to have fall downs, OK, to learn from those things, because if we don’t do that, what we have is an environment where it’s an echo chamber where people can’t innovate. And feel okay about the outcome.

Keith Sawarynski: Yeah. I mean, 10 years ago. So that would’ve made me 74 in your world, right? Ten years ago here I was introduced to somebody who talked to me about the difference between playing to win versus playing, not to lose. And so I watch football games like football season starting in a couple weeks. Right. And you’ll be up by 21 points in the fourth quarter and you’re going to prevent defense. And it’s a reflexive statement. I will say, oh, look, you’re in the prevent you from winning defense, right?


Keith Sawarynski: Oh, man.

Laura Cromwell: Another podcast.

Keith Sawarynski: And so what? So the difference between playing to win and playing not to lose. I think I would sum up in when you play not to lose, you withhold something. You’re gonna withhold a risk or you’re not going to take a risk or you’re gonna withhold a piece of you or an effort level or something. And then you can always justify why you didn’t get the winning outcome because you knew you weren’t actually giving it everything you had. Because the risk is if I gave it everything I had, and I still came up short, what does that say about me? I used to be an athlete. Let’s very much preface or make sure that everybody understands used to – was – And there is a huge difference between the guys that I played sports with and the guys that played sports because I was always of the mindset that we were going to win. And no matter what it took, we were going to win. And we didn’t, we didn’t win every single time. But there isn’t an instance where I would go back to those days and I would say I didn’t give it everything I had because I was worried about whether or not I was going to be successful because my mentality was, oh, we just lost that game. Some of them were really hard to get over. Probably will never get over. One of them in particular, however, you have to be able to get up tomorrow and do it again. And if you are successful tomorrow, then you have the next day to do it again. That mentality to me is the thing that I would love to see more people have. When we talk about it’s OK to fail here, it is OK to fail as long as you have given everything that you have mentally or whatever it is to that project or to that idea. And if it doesn’t work great, right. Then that will at least allow you to say that you gave it everything you had.

Joe Oltmann: Leave it all on the field.

Keith Sawarynski: Exactly.

Joe Oltmann: Leave it all on the field.

Keith Sawarynski: Exactly.

Laura Cromwell: With that, I want to thank you both for indulging me with your time and talking about what it’s like to work with Millennials and why you shouldn’t be afraid to fail and shouldn’t be afraid to hire Millennials either.

Joe Oltmann: We’re excited. We love millennials. We love everybody though. Well, that’s not-

Keith Sawarynski: That’s not true.

Joe Oltmann: We don’t love everybody. But we do love you.

Laura Cromwell: Awww.

Joe Oltmann: Yes, absolutely. Gold Star.

Laura Cromwell: I get a trophy!

Keith Sawarynski: You do get a trophy!

Joe Oltmann: Hey, but thanks for joining us.

Laura Cromwell: Everything is validated now! All right. Well, this is Laura Cromwell coming from PIN Business Network in the Denver Tech Center. Be sure to check out the rest of our podcasts at PINBusinessNetwork.com.

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